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alright! this is john kohler with okraw.com.today we have another exciting episode for you, and today we’re going to talk aboutsomething that you probably never thought you’d hear about on my show, goat milk!as you guys can see we’ve got a goat here, that’s goat named what?camille. camille. and goats like banana leaves, i likebanana fruits but goats like banana leaves, and next to me we have jeremy my friend thati’ve known for many years, he’s actually been into a raw diet for the last 22 years,and for 20 of those years he was strict raw vegan, i mean this guy’s been doing rawfoods for longer than me, i look up to this guy, he had probably the first raw vegan restaurantin maui back in the early 1990’s before

it was even thought about. and i always readabout the raw experience, and i wanted to go there when i first became raw, but i didn’thave a whole lot of money so i couldn’t get over to maui to try it so i never gotto eat the food at the restaurant. man but, he’s a cool guy one of the things that hedid recently in the last couple of years, is he started including some goat productsinto his diet and i was like “oh what’s going on man?” so that’s why we’re goingto talk with him today to learn more about this and find out about this and i know, youknow many of you guys out there watching this might be vegans and i want you guys to havean open mind because i mean, he was 20 years as a raw vegan, and something changed, soi want you guys always to be open to learning

new information and don’t ever fit or confineyourself in a little small box based on a label, based on a raw foods label, based onbeing a vegan label, or any label that you’re going to put on yourself. so let’s go aheadand sit down and chat with jeremy a little bit. all right so now we’re going to askjeremy some questions about his raw vegan diet that he did for 20 years until he startedeating some animal products, and jeremy why did you originally become a raw vegan andso adamant for 20 years about this? well originally a lot of it had to do withanimal activism, a lot of hit had to do with me wanting to just be kind to nature, andme wanting to step away from mainstream programming and from a lot of the industrialization thatwas going on within the marketplace of food

that i saw and so i was kind of revolted bythe killing of animals for food and profit and dairy products and honey and eggs andall that seemed to go right along with it so i really stepped away from it, and as ilearned more and got closer to nature i wanted to eat more fruit from the trees, i wantedto live in hawaii and be closer to my food sources and pick things that i was eating,and so those kind of things really got me into it and i lived with ann [inaudible] andlived with a bunch of people that were really into raw food and all of a sudden it becamemy world, i felt it was such an important thing i wanted to share it with everyone,i even went to opening a restaurant and writing a book about it.that’s awesome yeah, so he was super committed

to raw foods, i mean i’m on his 30 acrefarm, he has plenty of fruit trees and herbs and leafy greens, all kinds of cool stuffgrowing including a cool cannonball-shaped papaya that i’ve never seen in my life before,i mean this guy’s really into this stuff i mean he’s had the farm been eating someof the best produce, but then he started including some dairy products like, what happened jeremy?well what happened was that after about 16 or 17 years i had gotten an injury, whichwas rare for me, but i did a lot of martial arts and a lot of yoga, and i had rupturedone of the disks in my spine. and so i began trying every way i could to heal it and ihad a lot of issues. i noticed that my body wouldn’t heal rapidly enough, that i getdifferent treatments, body work or i would

try different things that i could do as faras raw food products would go, none of it was really giving me that healing for thenerves that i needed to stop the pain that i was in. i spent three years in pretty extremepain, and finally i was like “you know what i want to see if maybe dairy is somethingthat might help me.” i started having dreams about eating dairy, about dairy animals. i’dgo to friends’ houses, there’d be goats right next door on the fence and i’d feeldrawn to them. so i had this big connection all of a sudden with all these dairy animalsthat i’d never had—even growing up i rarely drank milk, i might have eaten ice cream orcheese on pizza or something, but i was never a big milk person. but i had this real attractionfor it, and the goat came into my world. i

went to see a friend and he was like “ineed help, help me catch this goat, let’s milk this goat,” and we milked this goatwith this guy and i’m like “okay i’ll milk this goat with you,” and the next dayhe’s like “the goat screamed since you left, it’s your goat you have to have thisgoat, it wants to live with you” and i [inaudible] farm and like drops it off, so all of a suddeni have this goat and i don’t know what to do, i’m milking this goat i’m like “okayi’m going to drink the milk,” and it was so soothing to me. now a lot of people likemyself, a lot of people were never breast-fed, so i think that may have been part of it toothat there was something in it i was really missing i needed, because when i got intoit i got into it for about two years, and

my body loved it. for those two years i wasway into it, i was drinking a quart, maybe two quarts a day. if i didn’t have goatsof my own that were milking i was getting it from the amish or i would get cheese fromthese monks in portugal that were silent monks hand-making sheep cheese from these wild [inaudible]sheep that were there, i mean i got way into the dairy thing for a couple of years.let’s stop there jeremy for a second, you know i know some of you guys out there mightbe thinking “didn’t he try water fasting because i heard water fasting heals all yourails, your body would heal when you get out the way,” i mean did you try water fasting,i mean what modalities did you try before you went i mean, dairy was not his first choice,he tried so many different things, what are

some of the different things you tried, letother people know out there. i got way into sesame oil for a while, a lotof people told me sesame oil would fix it and sesame seeds because of the calcium soi thought that would be something that would be way beneficial. i tried using comfrey mostlyexternally it’s not safe to use it internally, i got deep into the comfrey work i still worka lot with comfrey and i’m a huge fan of comfrey.yeah i see some in your garden. yeah i have a lot in the garden here. andyeah, i got into water fasting, i’ve always been a big water fasting person i’ve beena big fan of that, but that’s for removing, you know what i mean it’s like ann [inaudible]my teacher she’d say there’s only two

diseases in the whole world, poor assimilation,or poor elimination. either we’re not getting what we need, or we can’t get rid of somethingthat we don’t want. well fasting is perfect, you’ve got to get rid of something thatyou don’t want, you’ve got a virus, you’ve got strange bacteria, you got candida, yougot heavy metal poisoning, you got chemicals and toxins, water fasting perfect, it willget rid of all that stuff, but how do you get what you need when you’re water fasting,you don’t. and my body wasn’t receiving what it needed, it needed something on a majordosage, on a major high level to fix the nerve damage, because i had damaged the nerves sobadly by rupturing the disc inside my spinal column and the vertebrae fusing together iwas supposedly not going to be able to walk

ever again. and i’m back doing ashtangaand doing martial arts and doing everything. so, it really obviously worked, but i triedso many things, i tried different types of eating, increasing my protein, increasingmy fat, increasing my green intake, green juice fasting, fruit fasting, coconut water,eating tons of coconut meat, but none of it was giving me what my body really needed,what it got from that dairy was a direct rebuild, a rebuild of a lot of my base cellular structurethat i needed to fix in my nerves in my back and in my spinal column that i wasn’t gettingthrough the regular digestive process. i had energy, i felt okay but i was in pain, andi couldn’t figure out how to fix it, and so the dairy ended up being the thing, andi’m not saying it’s the only way, i’m

sure there might be other ways out there,but along my path after three years of pain and disability, that was what i chose, thatwas like “hey this worked, it came into me, started working, and it worked well,”until it did. and it didn’t. [inaudible] again keep thatin mind. so, i want you guys to be open because i know you hard core vegans are going to be,you know if you’re a hard core vegan answer this question right, if you’re going tobe in pain forever for the rest of your life or you had to drink goat milk out of yourown goats that you raised totally compassionately, you took care of just like they were yourpet dog or cat, would you drink it? that’s the question i mean, if there’s no otherway to heal and jeremy, when he says he tried

for three years, i mean this is a smart guyright here. i don’t look up to too many people in the raw foods mainly because someof them are kind of loony, but i appreciate jeremy because he’s a smart guy, he knowswhat’s up and i’m confident that he’s tried so many different things. and so jeremy,what do you think was in the dairy specifically that your body needed, or can you just notexplain, something was in there and i took it and i felt better?well, i mean some people say that the fat and protein that are in there help coat themyelin sheathing on the nerves, and that it does that as babies are even growing, so ithink there’s something to that. a lot of it was like the life force and feeling, ithink part of it was feeling that nurtured.

you know i think a big part of it was justlike that sunrise, sunset ritual with the animal, it loved me and wanted to give methe milk, there was no question, there was no forcing it, there was no needing to chaseit. it showed up there and wanted to share with me. in fact when i finally tried to stopmaking that goat give milk i’m like “you’ve given for a long time, let’s like [inaudible].”she didn’t want to stop, she still wanted to share with me. i mean that goat reallycared for me. and so i felt like that was really a big part of it, the goat caring forme, and the goat wanting to nourish and nurture me really helped a lot in the healing processin a big, way, but as far as nutrition goes yeah, it was the fat. it was definitely afat that i wasn’t getting anywhere else

from any other foods that i was eating, fromthe plant-based fats i just couldn’t get that level of rebuild. i could maintain fantasticallyon fruits and vegetables. fruits and vegetables i could maintain and keep going and doingand living, but with actual damage and needing to heal my body, i wasn’t healing fast enoughfor my body to recover for me to do. maybe if i had not had to do anything, never hadto get up and i could have just laid there and meditated for years, maybe my body wouldhave on vegetables recovered the same way, but the dairy seemed to be what was necessaryfor me to like i said, it really worked, and i had such a relationship to it too that ireally began to think about it and say “listen, i’m importing sesame seeds from the mainlandor from india i’m importing oils,” i’m

trying to get all these foods that i don’teven have here when i have a goat in my backyard i don’t have to go anywhere. and so it madea lot of sense to me to have the milk that this goat was offering me with love, and iwas giving it food of banana leaves and tea leaves and all the things that it loved, sowe had this special relationship, and it healed me and sometimes life’s like that, sometimesgrandma heals us with her chicken soup and it’s not the chicken or the soup really,but it’s often grandma’s love so that may have been a part of it, but a lot of peopledo, like i said, say that the fat and protein in there is just right for rebuilding themyelin sheathing and rebuilding the sheathing for the brain and for the nervous system,so that my spine was able to heal, and the

disc was able to reposition itself correctlyand my body was able to walk again. wow. so let’s talk about, because you saidit’s probably something about the proteins or the fats, i mean what other kind of fatsdid you try? did you try like essential fatty acids, omega 3’s, omega 6’s, what aboutdha and epa and all this kind of stuff? did you try those kind of things?well i wasn’t doing too many extracted things at the time, i mostly was focused on wholefoods, so i mean flaxseeds, you know tons of flaxseeds, tons of chia seeds, avocadoes,i was eating 8 or 9 avocadoes a day, i was eating a pound of macadamia nuts, so eatingall things for me was fantastic, but at the same time too much. it was like too much foodand too much for my body to process. four

ounces of milk and i would get what i’dget out of a pound of macadamia nuts and four avocadoes. and so my body was saying “heythis is more efficient usage on my body. it’s less wear and tear, i absorb more out of it,”my body was communicating with me directly at the time, showing me hey, you’re goingto eat all these avocadoes and all these nuts, the nuts are really hard on me, the nuts wereactually more mucous forming than the dairy was. you know so, i did try a lot of thingsand a lot of different fats, but it was hard for my body to process it, and hard for mybody to use it, it wasn’t right for me. and the milk was such a simple food source,it was so simple and so custom tailored and like here eating the same things i am, breathingthe same air, drinking the same water, it

made the relationship really special for me.wow, i mean yeah that’s pretty much what dairy is, the goats sit around and eat leavesand greens all day, so you’re just getting greens basically secondhand. jeremy anotherthing that’s very important to me is your relationship to the goats. you know if youguys go down to your local health food store or even farmer’s market right and buy rawgoat milk, it’s not the same as having your own goats or nurturing it and having a relationshipwith it like your pet. even organic goat farmers, they’re in it for one reason, they’rein it for a business for money, and they probably do things to the goats that are probably notin the best interest for the goats, whereas if you just have a single goat or a coupleof goats to make your own milk, i think that’s

much more better, so jeremy how did you rationalizethe whole vegan approach in like not having dairy and not having anything like this tonow being able to have your own goats and raise it in the most compassionate manner,feeding it off your land, and having like you said a relationship, i want to reallyget into that more because i think that’s very important that it’s often over glossedyou know, factory farming and commercial farming is not the same as having your own pets.yeah, very, very much so. it was, for me, a lot of it was about compassion. a lot ofit was about being able to care for the creature in a real way like i would a pet or a friend,and that was the thing that had originally gotten me to stop eating meat and stop eatingdairy was i was saying “hey, this was being

treated for just a commercial reason for somebodyto make money,” and i grew up in new york city so it’s being shipped all over theplace to be sold to people in a store where there was no connection to the creature. sowhen i had this connection to the creature, it made a difference to me. it was like thisspecial thing because she wanted to share with me. just like any animal wants to giveus love, like a dog wants to lick us, or even my dog he’ll sit there and if you get thelittle burrs on your leg from walking through the forest, the dog picks them all off yourpants leg and [inaudible] because the dog loves you like you know, so it was like tosee that i was in a compassionate relationship that was respectful with the animal, and iwasn’t asking anything more of it than it

wanted offer to me made it feel safe and madeit feel good and made me feel okay about stepping across that line and eating dairy. and thefact that my body needed it was perfect, it was like “wow i’m getting healed by thiscreature, and i’m creating a space that’s safe and a home for it in a loving environmentthat it could live in and it could learn and it could grow in.” so being able to be closeto the creature and have a compassionate relationship really made such a big difference and it madeit okay for me, it felt all right. in fact after that i got into bees too because i couldsee that i could care for the bees without ever harming them, without ever having tokill any bees because there was no winter here, i wasn’t taking anything from thembut their extra, and so i got to check that

out and it would be like “wow, what a greatexperience,” and to me it’s creating no harm, in yoga they call it ahimsa, and forme it’s just about path of peace and creating that peaceful interaction and the compassionateinteraction was what i really found with the goat so i continued it.wow i mean, i agree with jeremy on that, i think we’ve lost connection to mother earthand the creatures on mother earth and how to live in harmony instead of trying to havea narrow focus “oh i’m vegan, i can’t ever do this.” you know what if you raiseyour own bees? you know i started keeping bees this year, and don’t take anythingextra from the bees, a lot of beekeepers and a lot of honey absolutely is produced in thevery worst way, and a lot of it is actually

doctored with corn syrup and who knows whatkind of sweeteners. they steal the honey out of the beehives to sell, then they feed thebees sugar water because they stole all the bees’ honey. and you know, if you guys arevegan, they’re using slaved bees to pollinate almonds and other fruit crops, like 30% ofcrops out there need bees to get pollinated and those aren’t usually free-range bees,they’re shipped around in 18-wheelers from florida to california when the blossoms arecoming, and they’re not treated very well in my opinion, but you guys will buy almondsbut you won’t have honey. the big problem i think for me personally is the system atlarge and how it’s treating the creatures of the earth in an uncompassionate way, iknow the vegans out there can totally identify

with this, and try to push people that wantto believe about this further to have their own animals to be the most compassionate.so jeremy, i want to talk now about having your own goats and, like is it hard, is itdifficult, do they take a lot of care, and you said you had a relationship with the goatand the goat actually liked to give you its milk? i mean tell me, let’s talk about that.yeah, my first goat, the one that the guy just showed up here and brought to me, shereally cared about me, like as if i was the child that she didn’t have from her babythat had been given away to someone else. she just took me on and loved me in that way,so it was really special to have that. but it takes a lot to care for a lot of goats.when you just have one or two goats, it’s

actually very easy, and very chill, and agoat can make milk for a couple of years and even some miracle goats that will make goatmilk their whole lives. so it’s like you keep the goat milking, and then sometimesyou have to have it have babies again so then it turns into a whole bigger thing when youturn into a farmer with that having to deal with animal husbandry rather than just havinga goat that’s milking. when i first moved here there’s an island here in hawaii calledkahoolawe, and you can see it on the south side of the island they actually bombed thewhole island in the training for the wars in the 70s and stuff like that. but beforethat it was a goat island, and you could go there with your boat and go get a milkinggoat, milk it for a couple of years, and when

you’re done you bring it back and you justgo get another milking goat, so there wasn’t any having to take care of babies and dealwith breeding and what do we do with the males, and any of the mortality rate or any of that,you just got the goat, you [inaudible] you put it back and it was safe on the islandand it didn’t eat your fruit trees and it all made sense, but it’s not that way nowso to take care of goats, if you just have one goat it can be pretty easy, and if youjust freshen it every few years, and have a baby that you give away to somebody or ifyou decide to expand your herd, then it works out great. but, if you’re to try to expandand let the goats just breed and do their own thing they’ll get out of control eventuallyand either start breaking out or start eating

the fruit trees, your gardens that you careabout, so you don’t want the goats escaping, you want to be able to keep the goats containedso that requires having the right amount of land for it, and the right space, or the rightmanagement and the right way to move it around. people even trade a goat and be like “hey,it’ll stay at my house for a few days and then it’ll go to this person’s house fora week, and then it’ll go,” and if the goat moves around the neighborhood it stayssuper-healthy, it gets everything that it needs, the people get a little bit of milkhere and there when they need it based on each person’s need, you know someone hasa baby and they don’t enough milk they’re making, they want to give it to their baby,oh perfect here you go you have it for a long

time until your baby’s got enough. someperson wants to heal they get it for a while. so that can work out for people and then itdoesn’t out eat an area if you live in an urban environment. but if you live in thecountryside or you have a lot of land then you just fence in an area and have the goatthere, if your goat’s well-trained and you love the goat and the goat loves you it’lljust stick around, and it usually won’t eat your favorite fruit tree. well sometimes[inaudible] but mostly it won’t eat your favorite fruit tree, mostly it’ll eat thetea leaves and the banana leaves and the things that you plant as offerings to the goat. becausejust like anything else, it wants to have the things that it likes [inaudible] thatit likes, it’s going to eat those, it’s

going to eat its favorite foods and probablystay away from your trees. otherwise you’ve got to chase it away from your trees. so ittakes a little bit of work to have goats, i feed them a little bit of grain and a littlebit of alfalfa and stuff, but you can feed them just about anything twice a day i dojust to keep them regular, some people do it once, some people do three times, but itjust keeps them in that pattern, and they recognize sunrise and sunset, so they knowwhen that time is and they show up and so it’s like a really cool interaction to havewith them and get to like be in that with the goats and be in their understanding oflife and be part of it and be able to care for them just as they care for me.wow, yeah i mean last time i was here visiting

jeremy, i come every few years and i was probablyabout a couple three years ago, and i tried some of his goat milk after we milked thegoat, and okay i’m not raw vegan anymore either because i had a sample of goat milkfrom the best goat fed the best food, totally raw that i pretty much milked myself, andi got a mucous reaction, so it didn’t quite jive with my body, my body was telling me“hey john, this is not good for you for where you’re at,” but obviously jeremyneeded it. but that being said, it didn’t work forever with jeremy. because it workedup to a point so jeremy let’s get into that now because i don’t want people to get goatsand have to think they need the goat milk for the rest of their life of course you know,i also want to encourage you guys to always

listen to your body because your body knowsbest what you need if you listen intensely and closely. you might think you need goatmilk, but then you drink it and you feel like crap, well then you probably didn’t needit. if you drink it and you break out or get constipated or you get a mucous reaction,those are signs in my opinion that your body is telling you that you might not need thisforeign substance. i still prefer coconut milk over any kind of goat milk and one dayi’m going to get to try human milk and i mean that’s going to be the bomb especiallyif the human that’s making the milk is being fed a really ultra-good diet, and i’ll tellyou when i try that. but anyways, so jeremy tell us more about how it worked for you fora while and then stopped not working.

so the dairy was really helpful for me, iwas repairing my body with it, it felt really good, my spine got all better i was superhappy about it i actually gained a little bit of weight from it, i gained some musclemass, i was staying up longer at night, working out harder, getting a lot stronger, gettingmore work done, i felt more focused, and i felt really peaceful too, so it was a reallypeaceful state. you know oftentimes when people get into those working modes and workout modes,they get really intense into their yang energy, but i was actually staying very peaceful throughthe dairy while doing all that so it was really nice. but then at some point i started havinga reaction to it that was really surprising to me, because i work out a lot, i sweat alot, my body detoxes really well, i’m not

used to having anything, i’ve had reallygood skin my whole life, and i started getting these itchy bumps that i had no idea whatthey were, and so i started getting these things and i wondered for a while and i thoughtmaybe it’s because i’m eating a lot cacao and so i stopped eating cacao, and i triedto figure out if it was something else that i was eating or doing. i had a new car i thoughtmaybe it was the seat that i was sitting on, and i was like, maybe it’s something i’msitting on because they were on my butt, and i was like “oh gosh, i’m getting theseweird bumps and they itch and they’re gone in 24 hours.” and i was like “this isreally weird, in 24 hours these things are gone.” so finally i started asking a coupleof people and i asked a friend who’s a doctor

and he said “oh those are hives, you’regetting hives.” and i was like “wow, what do you think?” and he said “well thesethings are often allergenic, are you eating any of these things, almonds, pecans, nuts,”and so i stopped eating those and one of the things that he had also mentioned was dairy,but he didn’t think that was it. but i wondered if that was it, and so then i was like “i’mgoing to stop dairy.” and i stopped eating dairy and i stopped having hives. i startedgoing back to the dairy and i’d get hives, and i really started experimenting with howmuch dairy can i do right? he was addicted to what morphine or whateverwas in the dairy that cheese stuff. so i drank like a little bit, and it was like2 ounces would give me one hive, and it would

go away pretty much within an hour or two.if i drank a bunch of it, if i drank a cup or a quart or something like that, i’d geteight or ten hives, they’d last all the way almost ten or 24 hours, 12 to 24 hours,and then they’d fade away, so i began to see that what it was was the dairy and mybody had obviously had enough, and so i stopped. i was like “listen i’ve got to stop thisfor a while,” and once in a while i’ll still eat the dairy and i’ll still get ahive from it, so obviously my body hasn’t detoxed it all the way, but one thing thati did do is i did two water fasts since then, and each time after the water fast the resultinghive has been much less. they’ve been much smaller, so my body is getting back to a pointwhere it could handle it again. not to say

that i’ll probably ever go back to eatingit unless i was injured or i had a real reason, i probably won’t go back to eating dairyon a regular basis. a few times a year, in the right situation the right time, sure iwill. when the goat first makes milk and it makes the colostrum, sometimes that’s reallythe right moment and there’s like tons of extra colostrum sometimes, i’ll drink themilk. if the goat wants to offer me the milk and i really feel that, i might drink themilk but like i said, five or ten times a year ends up being about right for me now.wow. yeah i mean, i want to ask people that are hardcore vegans, does that make jeremya bad person for drinking milk a few times a year now, i mean i want to just try to remainopen and let people know that there’s always

options out there, and live your life howyou would like to live, and of course i’m sure you guys have opinions about this topic,you can discuss them below the video, try to keep the comments nice though, becausei also believe pretty much like jeremy, if i had a legitimate reason that my body requiredgoat milk yes, i would keep my own goats, make sure they’re fed nicely, totally compassionately,and drink some goat milk if it was going to heal me, but i would try all other avenues,i mean one of the things i personally think is one of the things in the goat milk thatmay be beneficial that may have been missing is some of those specific pre-formed higherlevel essential fats like the dha and the epa, and i would tend to experiment more withmanufactured oils out of algae, and on a regular

basis or irregular basis i’d take some epaand dha just for that reason because it’s so much to do with the nerves and also thebrain which i think is very important. jeremy any last comments about this whole topic thatyou want to let people know about that may be hardcore vegans that are listening to thisand they’re fuming at the head right now or whatever?well, i’d say as we were talking about earlier, eat what your body really needs and what’sright for your body and right for your usage, and to limit ourselves based on a productor a teacher or somebody telling us to eat something that is good for us doesn’t alwaysmake it so, and we have to really explore and experiment for ourselves, and the thingsthat we’re drawn to we need to really listen

to our body and listen to our own intuition,especially with something that’s pure and the consciousness is high. if the consciousnessbehind it is high and it’s something that really we’re drawn to, then usually it’sworth checking out and exploring even if message needs to be back, yeah it wasn’t for me.but sometimes we’re led on those paths for real reasons, and i think that people thatlimit themselves based on the boxes of societal confines or of dogmas often get themselvestrapped, not being able to get the help that they need, not being able to realize or understandthe things that they need to because of those limitations, and all limitations are self-imposedso we need to break those boxes but still be able to be respectful and honor ourselveshonor nature, honor and be able to go forward

and take care of ourselves in the right way.wow, i mean, i totally agree with that i mean i always want to encourage you guys to checkin with your body. we’re taught to listen to people, listen to people and authority,listen to youtube people, listen to whoever wrote the book on this subject, and that’sthe gospel right? there’s a book called actually the raw foods bible. but everybody’sbody is a little bit different, you need different things, and if you do, i’m not advocatingdrinking goat’s milk, if you do want to do that i would highly encourage you to keepyour own goats and go through the process, because just like i think buying meat that’salready prepackaged and you not going through the process of raising your own animals andslaughtering them yourself, i mean that’s

just bullshit you guys should be doing that,and the other thing that i also think very strongly about is that what would we eat innature? we wouldn’t have tons of meat or tons of dairy, we would probably have thosein small amounts and our primary diet would be greens and fruits, and i want to encourageyou guys, if you do experiment with these more concentrated foods that dairy and meatsare, do them in small amounts but still eat plenty of fresh fruits and fresh vegetables.you know my goal, and i’ll put this out there is not to convert everybody in the worldto 100% vegan right? i think that would be great, and it would be wonderful, but i honestlybelieve that’s not going to happen anytime soon, my goal is to convert 100% of the worldto 85 to 90% vegan because at that point,

it’s like having just 10% of the world 100%vegan right? because there’s going to be a lot more massive change and trying to thinkout of the box and being a little bit more relaxed about this and making sure that animalsare taken care of and not just buying commercial dairy or commercial meats, but raising themyourself if that’s what you chose to do and go through the whole process so that youhave to kill your own animals, and i would never do that myself you know…yeah me neither. but if you’re going to do that that’sthe best way to do it, and i would hope and pray that people wouldn’t be able to dothat, because i could just never take another life for me to live, because i know, i’velived on a plant based diet for nearly 20

years now without having to eat any kind ofmeat. and yes i have experimented with dairy, and [inaudible] didn’t agree with me. soi mean that’s pretty much the takeaway message, listen to your bodies, and don’t just automaticallyrule out things, because they may be able to help you. so last question for jeremy,going forward what does your diet look like today to let everybody know how a 22 yearraw for the most part vegan predominantly is eating a healthy diet and lifestyle?well my diet today pretty much involves things that i really feel are special and sacredif i’m drawn in the right moment to it, i love fruit, i love fruit in a huge way,so fruit that i can carry with me specially comes with some packaging, it’s biodegradable,it’s easy to take with you away from the

plant, it doesn’t always require refrigerationso i’m a big fruit eater, right now we’re in the prickly pear season, i’m a big fanof the [inaudible] the prickly pear, we have a lot of [inaudible] here right now, we havea lot of [inaudible] so those are great things, i love picking those and having those, theinga, the ice cream bean, still a huge wheatgrass fan, i still first thing every day i stilllove wheat grass, and so i still drink a fair amount of wheatgrass, i’ve explored cookedfood a little bit in the last couple of years after 20 years of being a raw foodist so,i’ve checked out some of that and again, i enjoy that a little bit here and there andhave learned a lot of from doing it and i prefer being all raw, it’s easier for me,it’s where i gravitate towards, i pick a

lot of things a lot of seasons here, there’sso much abundance of fruit that that’s all i could think to eat because it’s what’saround me, and so yeah going forward i really am just going to listen to my body, do whati know is right, not try to judge myself because i found that the psychological side of itjust got to be too heavy after so many years, i just wanted to be able to love myself andnurture myself and i found that i do that with the fruit and with the food and withgrowing things in my garden and with those things that i really relate to in that specialway, and so i stick to a lot of fruit, a lot of vegetables, but yeah i even will grow squashand i’ll bake the squash or the breadfruit, i’ll harvest the breadfruit and we’llbake that in the coals of the fire and again

for me, it’s so much more natural than somethingi could buy in a supermarket. and yeah i may have to cook it, but there’s something specialabout that breadfruit that it came to me from the tree right to me. so that’s what i likegoing forward doing. yeah i mean, i’ve been doing the 99.999%raw foods for nearly 20 years now and that’s working for me, and i still love jeremy what’sworking for him, and i want to encourage you guys out there to eat as much plant foodsas you can, i think that’s far better than anything else. i don’t necessarily teachyou guys out there to be 100% raw, but eat as much fresh fruits and vegetables as youcan. if there’s anything you got from this, jeremy did small amounts of dairy and stilllarge amounts, the majority of his diet was

still fresh fruits and vegetables after allthese years, and it’s working for him. oh yeah.[laughter] so jeremy if somebody wants to learn more about you and your important workbecause i know you’re pretty much involved in your homestead, 30 acres of farming you’reexpanding new areas and you’ve got new fruit trees every time i show up and, too bad there’sno fruit in season yet they [inaudible] get some good turmeric in your [inaudible] thistrip. but how can they contact you to learn more about your work, i know you wrote a bookand stuff, it’s a really good book actually on raw foods.yeah you can find me at jeremysafron.com, and you can also find me on facebook as jeremysafron, that’s j-e-r-e-m-y s-a-f-r-o-n,

and then [inaudible] farm is the name of thefarm here, so if people want to check out the farm we have a woofing program and peoplecan come and visit and stay and learn more about farming that way, and my book the rawtruth, and dining from an empty bowl the fasting handbook are still out there and available,they’re now from random house book so i can get copies of them, cool. yeah.i mean he wrote a book on fasting so yes, he tried fasting when he hurt his back, imean… oh yeah.for the hardcore natural hygiene people out there [inaudible].[laughter] i hope you guys enjoyed this episode, area little bit more open about different topics

and trying to get you guys to think out ofthe box, be more open to possibilities, when done properly i will never advocate any kindof farm raised animal products, if you want to do it yourself, and nowadays i’m noteven really advocating farm raised fruits and vegetables, i want you guys to grow themyourself so if you’re not starting to do that like jeremy is, like i am, check outgrowingyourgreens.com or growing your greens youtube channel, i have over 1,000 videosnow on how you can start growing your own foods yes, even if you live in the middleof new york city in an apartment in the winter time, you can grow sprouts and microgreensinside like ann [inaudible] did back in the day, which was one of jeremy’s teachersthere. anyways hope you guys enjoyed this

episode, once again my name is john kohlerwith okraw.com, we’ll see you next time and until then keep eating your fresh fruitsand vegetables, they’re always the best.